Seong-Jin Cho (Part II)

In the coming months, we will be featuring interviews with musicians of various backgrounds. If you are a musician and would like to be featured in our series, please contact us at thecounterpoints@gmail.com. A complete list of our interviews can be found here. Follow us on Twitter@elijahho.

Seong-Jin Cho is the winner of the 2015 International Fryderyk Chopin competition. Long before Warsaw, however, Cho was an outlier among prodigies, dazzling even the most experienced ears with his natural facility and distinct musical maturity. His longtime teacher, Shin Soojung, told us, “When I began working with him, I didn’t realize just how exceptional he was. How can a boy play like that ? But the more I know him, the more I’m sure of it. He is amazing. He was born for this.” Below is the transcript of our November 28, 2022 conversation with pianist Seong-Jin Cho.

(Our piece on Seong-Jin Cho for the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper - a conversation with the pianist and his teacher, Shin Soojung - can be found here).

EH: Dang Thai Son told me that he heard you at age 13, in Busan, and believed that you probably could have been a prize winner at the international Chopin competition, even then. At what age did the piano begin to make sense for you ?

Cho: I remember this meeting with Dang Thai Son. I remember playing for him in 2008 when I was 13. I was preparing for the Moscow Chopin for junior pianists, and I played Polonaise Op. 53. I had a lesson with him, and it was fantastic and inspiring. I still remember the lesson very well.

I think I just wanted to do it. It’s been my dream to be a pianist since the age of six, just after I started learning. I’ve done many other things: paintings, sports, etc., but music was the only thing that attracted me.

My teacher, Shin Soojung, is now very relaxed, but when I was 13-14, she was quite strict. My first piano teacher, whom I worked with until 2009, was also very strict. No one gave me compliments, so I didn’t know that I was talented. I did some competitions and won some prizes in local competitions in Korea. My parents thought I was a little bit talented and supported me, but I didn’t think I was that good. I was not fully confident (laughs). That kind of environment made me humble, probably.

EH: Yes, your teacher, Shin Soo-Jung, is very proud of you. Do you still play for her ?

Cho: She always comes to my concerts whenever play in Korea. Before the pandemic, she came to my Carnegie Hall recital, and at rehearsals, she’ll sometimes give me some advice.

My teacher was a pupil of Fleisher, and is basically a first-generation Korean classical musician. Studying classical music at that time was incredibly hard. But I respect the musicianship too. She’s a great teacher and musician, and her interpretation is very authentic and special, with a very interesting, unique way of phrasing.

Maybe my teacher is too proud of me (laughs). But I have so much respect and gratitude for Korean musicians of that generation. Korea was, economically, a totally different country then. We are only here today because of everything that generation did for us.

EH: She shared with me that even as a young student, you had no technical difficulties. Is there an etude or a certain type of technical passage that worries you ?

Cho: Of course I have some technical difficulties (laughs). Like Chopin Etude Op. 10 No. 2, which is very hard for me. Op 25 No. 6 is also very hard. I cannot explain why these are so difficult for me. But Op. 10 No. 1 is not very hard for some reason, and Op. 10 no. 10 and 12 are not so difficult.

EH: Speaking of difficult, it is very hard to stand out as a pianist today. In your opinion, what is the role of imagination for the interpreter ? My own teacher, Ronald Turini, told me that he believed it was Horowitz’ (his teacher) greatest gift.

Cho: I think being a musician, especially these days, is very hard. Being special or good, I don’t know what that means. There are so many great references, great recordings on Youtube. You can listen to the legendary performances so easily. There is some pressure that you have to be different, not better, in order to be yourself. This kind of idea gives pressure to young musicians. If I think too much about this kind of thing, I don’t think I’d be able to keep playing the piano.

For me, imagination is just being myself. Of course, you can try many different things: different colors, different uses of the pedal, left-hand voicings, etc., but I don’t think it means being eccentric. If I try to imitate Horowitz, technically, it will sound very unnatural. If I try to imitate Glenn Gould, it will sound…weird. I don’t try to form ‘Seong-Jin Cho’s interpretation’ or sound or phrase.

It’s like your own voice -- you can’t change it. Imagination, or being inspired by something, is always important. I try to understand the context of the music, I play, and just… let it go. I believe this kind of approach makes the music most unique and special, and I can also be myself.

EH: Of course, it goes without saying that you are the pride of South Korea. You once told me there is a lot of pressure for you when you play for audiences there. Has this changed ? Do you feel it’s a lot of pressure to carry, even now ?

Cho: I’ve been thinking about this a lot, because the last time we spoke was four or five years ago. And maybe I’ve been to Korea at least 6-7 times since. I attended many concerts there as a child. I’m very proud to be Korean, but I actually get very nervous every time I play at the Seoul Arts Center. I think that stage represents my dreams. I don’t want to disappoint anybody there. Of course, I feel pressure because there is so much expectation and support, and I don’t want to disappoint them. But I’ve concluded it’s not about the pressure, but probably about the childhood memories I have.

EH: What are your thoughts on Korea’s meteoric ascent in the music world ?  Is it something you think about when you are traveling ?

Cho: I’m a very objective person in terms of nationality. I think Korean people, if I say very objectively, are very creative, very open-minded, and they love music - not just classical music. If you look at K-pop and K-dramas, they are so popular, but they’ve always been there. It’s quitecool that people in the world have started recognizing the culture and dramas, but it’s always been there.

For classical music, there’ve always been great musicians in Korea. And whenever I go to Korea, it is so obvious that the audience there is much younger than elsewhere. Whenever I have meetings with journalists, they ask why, and I really don’t know. It’s weird. I don’t know why classical music is interesting for young musicians in Korea.

I’m very proud of being Korean because of these kinds of factors. I’ve repeated many times in interviews, I don’t think I’m a national hero or whatever (laughs), but I’m grateful that people come to my concerts. When I play in America or in European cities, the Korean communities really come out to support me. I’m really grateful for that.

EH: One South Korean musician who’s making a name for himself is Yunchan Lim, whom we interviewed earlier this fall. I’m sure you’ve listened to his performances. Have you met him ?

Cho: We haven’t met yet, but I am so proud of Yunchan. Of course, I am rooting for him! And I’m so pleased that Korean musicians are now recognized in the world - not only pianists, but so many others, like Inmo Yang, winner of the 2022 Sibelius violin competition, and Hayoung Choi, the cellist who won the 2022 Queen Elisabeth competition. It was, of course, a privilege and an honor to win the Chopin, but that is a third of your life. But yes, I’m really proud, and I’m really rooting for Yunchan!

EH: Since winning the Chopin competition, has your relationship with the composer changed ? I remember when we last spoke, you were quite happy that you would soon be playing the music of other composers.

Cho: My relationship with Chopin has changed twice, I think. After winning in Warsaw, I played Chopin so much I began counting the number of times I performed his E minor concerto. I stopped at 70. I thought maybe I shouldn’t play Chopin so much after this. Intentionally, I stopped playing Chopin from the 2018-19 season. I played some concertos, but less so in recitals.

Last year, I recorded the Scherzi of Chopin, and I believed it was a good time to come back. I felt very comfortable with his music again, and I felt no pressure. Next season, I don’t have any plans to play Chopin’s music, other than the concerto.

During the pandemic, I think I also changed quite a lot, personally. My thinking has changed the past year. There was so much depressing news, I had to stop reading. It helped. Maybe I was sort of depressed during the pandemic, but I’m a happier person now.

I love Chopin, and I love what I’m doing. I love traveling, I love to perform, to meet and collaborate with great musicians. I love classical music, and I always listen to classical music. I’m just happy.

EH: Your program on December 8, in Berkeley, has no Chopin on it. You’re playing two Handel works, the Brahms-Handel Variations, Klavierstucke, and the Schumann Symphonic Etudes. What can you tell us about these ?

Cho: Whenever I make a recital program, I try to play something unfamiliar. Last season, I had the Janáček sonata, ‘Gaspard de la nuit’, and the 4 Chopin Scherzi. In 2020, I included Szymanowski, the Berg sonata, pieces that are a bit less familiar for the normal public.

Handel is a composer not so often played, especially on the modern piano. Recently, I discovered Sviatoslav Richter’s recordings of Handel, and they were so beautiful, so different from Bach. Bach’s music is perhaps more complicated, but Handel’s is more from the heart. It sings more. I was thinking of the combination of the Brahms-Handel Variations - Brahms was inspired by Handel - and I was wondering about the second half, and wanted to play some variations. I thought having the Brahms-Handel variations paired with Schumann’s Symphonic Etudes (variations) is always pleasant. I love making recital programs. It’s like making a course meal, and there’s the main dish (laughs).

EH: Seong-Jin, it was wonderful speaking again. Best of luck at your Berkeley debut.

Cho: Thank you, Elijah!

Our 2017 conversation with pianist Seong-Jin Cho can be found here.

Yun-chan Lim

In the coming months, we will be featuring interviews with musicians of various backgrounds. If you are a musician and would like to be featured in our series, please contact us at thecounterpoints[@]gmail.com. A complete list of our interviews can be found here. Follow us on Twitter@elijahho.

There are few comparables for what transpired this past June in Fort Worth, Texas. Music lovers around the world watched in bewilderment as an 18-year-old South Korean pianist set new competition standards, first ripping through Liszt’s Transcendental Etudes, then moving listeners to tears in Rachmaninoff’s Piano Concerto in D minor (Op. 30). Below is the transcript of our September 2022 e-mail exchange with the phenomenal pianist, Yun-chan Lim.

(Our piece on Yun-chan Lim for the Bay Area News Group - with additional comments by Stephen Hough, Marin Alsop, and Lim’s teacher, Min-soo Sohn, can be found here)

(Our SFCV review of Yun-chan Lim’s West Coast debut recital can be found here)

EH: At what age did you realize that your musical gifts were perhaps a bit unusual ?

 Lim: I never thought I had musical talent in my life. I started playing the piano at the age of seven, and I'm just a person who loves music so much that I'm trying to make great music.

EH: Do you believe you played your very best at the Van Cliburn ? Is there much more you could have done in, say, the Transcendental Etudes or the Rachmaninoff Third ?

Lim: I don't think I was in my best condition at the Cliburn competition. I entered the stage thinking about Carl Sagan's ‘Pale Blue Dot’, but I couldn't help being nervous and couldn't show 100% of me. I had to create more universes and there was a possibility, but it didn't come out easily.

EH: The world would love to know your thoughts on the Rachmaninoff Third Piano Concerto. Whose recording inspired you to play it so magnificently ? Is Rachmaninoff a composer who speaks to you on a personal level ?

Lim: Rachmaninoff is like Bach. All the voices are singing their own beautiful songs, and they're developed in a really detailed relationship to create highlights. It's one of the most important factors in Rachmaninoff. I've rarely listened to any other playing than Horowitz and Rachmaninoff. I decided that it's right to listen to the most basic recordings.

EH: On the other hand, is there a composer whose works you cannot fall in love with – or a period of music - that simply does not speak to you ?

Lim: My teacher said, "The composer is not at fault, the performer is always the problem."

EH: Stephen Hough, Daniil Trifonov, and Marc-Andre Hamelin are a few of today’s pianists who perform and also compose. Do you spend any time composing ? Is it necessary for a great performer to compose ?

Lim: Every pianist has to compose. I learned music (composition) at school for two years from Jeon Minje, a 2009 winner at the Queen Elizabeth competition, composition category. He told me that a pianist should compose and play his own music. If I can do that, I'll do that.

EH: After the competition, you told the world, “I made up my mind that I will live my life only for the sake of music, and I decided that I will give up everything for music”. What a beautiful sentiment. What are some of the more meaningful musical moments – recordings, live performances, or personal music-making – that have led you to this decision ?

Lim: I think the most beautiful moment to taste music is when a musician practices in the practice room. The artist's practice room is a space that creates various universes, and you can see the frustration and joy of making great music through many attempts. This process was not only for my teacher, but also by pianists like Schnabel and Sofronitsky.

EH: One of the more famous prodigies in America, George Li, told me he was practicing 3-5 hours a day by age 8; as many as 6 hours by age 9; and by his teens, he was doing eight hours whenever possible. How much practicing did you do growing up ? Are you a compulsive practicer, or do you need to be pushed with lessons, concerts, deadlines, etc ?

Lim: George Li is one of the musicians I respect most, and I have always admired him for learning from my teachers, Russell Sherman and Wha Kyung Byun. I practiced for 4 to 5 hours when I was young, but I practiced for 8 hours since I was 12 years old, and now I do it all day. It could be pressure for the concert. Because there is pressure not to disappoint people who pay to see it.

 EH: People have noticed a breath of freshness, a certain unbridled freedom you attack pieces with. Do you take chances when you are on stage ?

Lim: I think every pianist can improvise. In fact, Horowitz and Rachmaninoff admired Art Tatum, and the Hungarian musician, Liszt, was also a master of improvisation. If you just do what you've practiced, it causes tension and you lose many possibilities on stage.

EH: What is your relationship with the audience ? Do you deal with stage fright, or, are you like Arthur Rubinstein, who needed an audience in order to give his very best impression of the music ?

Lim: Music was born to communicate. I want to share my ideas with the audience and ask them for their opinions, and this is probably one of the most beautiful things in the world.

EH: You are quickly becoming one of the most talked about musicians in the field. What is one thing listeners probably don’t know about you that you would like for them to know ?

Lim: Not really, because I'm just a person who makes music, and I'm not much of a person at all.

EH: You are currently working with Professor Minsoo Sohn at the Korea National University of Arts. What are some of the most helpful ideas he has imparted upon you ? Will you stay with Professor Sohn, or do you have plans to study with others in the future ?

Lim: I can't tell you my future plan, because I don't know if I'll die tomorrow or seven days later. My teacher’s musical ideas surprise me every time, and Sohn always comes up with new ideas. Sohn values interpretations that people can understand. All ideas are based on good evidence, and my teacher says it's important to bring out the songs deep in my heart into the real world, not to play them like the trends that others play.

EH: Which pianists - dead or alive - mean the most to you ?

Lim: There are so many artists in my mind, but Stanislav Neuhaus, Cortot, Schnabel, Horowitz, Rachmaninoff, Yudina, Josef Lhevinne, etc. are most inspiring to me.

EH: It is the responsibility of the performer to be faithful to the score. Is it possible for a great performer to surpass the vision of the composer ? (I’m thinking of those like Horowitz and Gould, here)

Lim: In fact, no one knows what a composer wanted. Even the composer himself might have something he wants to fix if he were to come back to life. Every musician should be able to sing his or her own song in a given score. If you look at Horowitz's performances, he adds notes that are not in the score, or sings in a completely different phrase, but it doesn't matter because it persuades many artists.

EH: Because everybody struggles with something – which Chopin or Liszt Etude is the most difficult for your hand ?

Lim: I've played all 24 of Chopin's Etudes and op. 25 a lot, but I haven’t played the whole op. 10 on-stage yet. But what I feel is that the Chopin Etude, which has to express characters and the universe for each song, is more difficult.

EH: Your upcoming program in California includes the astonishing Liszt ‘Dante’ sonata. You said you almost memorized Dante’s book from cover to cover. How long does it take you to learn and memorize a piece like the Rachmaninoff Third Piano Concerto ?

Lim: I played the Dante sonata in 2020 and read so many times the great man Dante. Maybe not now, but at the time, I remembered enough to say the words of the book without looking at it, and I think it really meant that I was inspired by Dante. It depends on the piece, but in Rachmaninoff's case, it took seven days for each movement to memorize it.

EH: Korean-pop culture has recently turned into a global phenomenon. Do you listen to pop music yourself ? Are you proud of the growing international success of your country ?

Lim: I'm very proud of the international success of the music, but at the same time, I haven’t listened to a single thing yet.

EH: There are some who hold the belief that a pianist from country X cannot truly understand the culture of a composer from country Y ? What are your thoughts on this matter ?

Lim: Only the stupidest people in the world would have that idea. A great pianist from Japan can understand Rachmaninoff 100%, and a great pianist from India can understand Beethoven. Because this is music. If you try hard enough, you can understand everything about the composer. This is a matter of individual, not race and nationality.

EH: Is there anything about the state of music right now – bad programs, musical ignorance, the way performers sound, lack of inspiration, etc. – that you would like to change ?

Lim: I do feel that the world is changing one dimensionally. I think there are a lot of people who swear when new things come out, because they live in a one-dimensional world, they don't get 12 dimensions of inspiration. Artists have to try new things every time and think constantly.

EH: Thank you for taking the time, Yun-chan. And all my very best to you.

Lim: Thank you!

If you are a musician and would like to be featured in our series, please contact us at thecounterpoints[@]gmail.com. A complete list of our interviews can be found here. Follow us on Twitter@elijahho.

Seong-Jin Cho

In the coming months, we will be featuring interviews with musicians of various backgrounds. If you are a musician and would like to be featured in our series, please contact us at thecounterpoints[@]gmail.com. A complete list of our interviews can be found here.

In 2011, Alessio Bax (winner of the 2000 Leeds competition) told me about a 14-year-old pianist he had heard at the Hamamatsu competition, a prodigy from South Korea for whom “from the moment he walked on stage, any 40 year old would have been happy with that kind of performance!”. The wunderkind, widely known to insiders, would make international headlines in 2015 as the 1st prize winner at the International Chopin Competition in Warsaw. Below is a transcript of our May 9, 2017 conversation with pianist Seong-Jin Cho.

(Our piece on Seong-Jin Cho for the Bay Area News Group, with additional remarks from Dang Thai Son, can be found here)

EH: At what age did you begin taking piano lessons seriously ? Are you from a musical family ? I read that you’re an only child.

Cho: Yes, I’m an only child. I started playing piano at the age of 6, but not so seriously, just as a hobby. I started to have lessons from a piano professor at 10 years old. There are no musicians in the family, but my parents loved classical music. We had a lot of classical recordings in the house, so I listened to them when I was a child. It felt very natural to me.

EH: How is your musical memory ? For example, how long does it take you to learn something like the Chopin Concerto in E minor ? Do you have perfect pitch ?

Cho: I do have perfect pitch. It really depends on the piece. For example, when I learned the Rachmainoff Third when I was 15 or 16, it took two or three months to memorize everything, because there are a lot of notes. But Chopin, both concertos, to memorize it, was maybe one month - maybe three weeks is also possible. But musically, both concertos require a lot of time to understand deeply. Three weeks is not enough to express the music properly.

EH: What happened with your development after the Hamamtsu competition?

Cho: Musically speaking, when I was 14, I was not ready yet. I started to have lessons when I was 10, so compared with the others, that’s rather late. And I didn’t have much repertoire at 14 - I hadn’t played many things. The Hamamatsu was held in March 2009, and my Korean teacher asked me to participate because there were lots of great professors like Alessio Bax and Arie Vardi. It was a good experience for me to be there, and musically speaking, from that period on, I really fell in love with the Romantic period of music. I played Liszt and Chopin, and I participated in the Hamamatsu in Novemer 2009. So between March and November, I worked hard on Beethoven and Mozart sonatas, a Beethoven concerto, etc. That year, my musical ability progressed a lot.

EH: The Chopin competition is arguably the most prestigious piano competition in the world. Now that you’ve won it, do you feel any pressure to be more than another Chopin winner who plays Chopin well ?

Cho: At the beginning, yes, I had to play all-Chopin programs because everybody expected it. But I starting in 2018-19, I’ll be playing less Chopin, and finally, next year, in January, I’ll play a recital at Carnegie Hall, and there will be no Chopin. Personally, I feel really happy about this.

The past winners, like Pollini, Argerich and Zimerman, are really great artists. And I thought, they are really just different from me. But now, I feel it’s not pressure, but I have some responsibility. I feel the responsibility, not about career, but about quality, that I really need to work hard to be on a similar level as these artists. Maybe that sounds a little bit not humble, but I really want to play at the level of past winners. I feel that responsibility.

EH: Are you a compulsive practicer ? How many hours do you practice a day right now ?

Cho: I travel quite a lot these days. When I take a train or a plane I just fall asleep (laughs). But I always think about music. Sometimes I get ideas, and I’ll just go to the piano and try it. Music is always in my head.

I can’t practice too much, but I try to do at least three hours, maybe four. But when I get home, I’m often very tired, I need to rest, and so I try three hours.

EH: Op. 10 No. 1 doesn’t seem very difficult for you. Which is the most difficult Chopin Etude for your hand ? How old were you when you played your first Chopin Etude ?

Cho: My first Chopin Etude was Op. 25 No. 2. I was ten, 10-and-a-half, I think. Technically, I can say, the thirds, Op. 25 No. 6 is quite difficult for me, and Op. 10 No. 2. Op. 10 No. 1 is easy for me (laughs).

EH: Do you listen to many piano recordings ? I’ve read that you’re a fan of Radu Lupu.

Cho: When I was a high school student, I bought many recordings. I have a few thousand recordings in my house, and I adore a lot of symphonic and piano music. Radu Lupu was my idol growing up in Korea. The first album of his that I bought was Brahms Klavierstucke 118 & 119. I was really moved by his performances. But still, I really love his music, and he’s one of my favorites.

EH: Your debut DG album went platinum many times in Korea. What can you tell me about the love of classical music in your country, the support you’ve receive ?

Cho: I can say there are many people who really support me, and when I play in Korea, the audience is really enthusiastic. When I play there, every concert is sold-out. I can say I really appreciate it, and I’m actually a bit nervous when I’m in Korea because there’s a kind of expectation. But I do really appreciate it.

EH: Can great performers surpass the vision of the composer ? What is the principal purpose of the performer ?

Cho: Everybody has different opinions, and I respect their opinions. For me, first of all, I think we have to respect and understand the meaning of the music. I recently played for Alfred Brendel, and we were talking about originality. He can express many things. If people listen to his recordings, people know right away that it’s Alfred Brendel. His originality is not eccentric.

I try to understand the meaning of what the composer is trying to say, and the performer has to convey this message. When I play Beethoven’s music, I try to really respect what he wrote in the score. His character is so precise, and he knows what he wants. But when I play Debussy, he’s less precise than Beethoven, or Ravel, too. With some music like the Chopin Mazurkas, there must be freedom of rhythm, which is essential. We shouldn’t play Chopin academically. So the way we play has to depend on the composer. I think Bach can be freer than Beethoven or Schumann, who wrote so many indications, but Mozart or Bach are also freer than Debussy and Chopin.

EH: Is there a relatively little known composer whose works you adore ?

Cho: Cesar Franck, even though he didn’t write so many piano pieces, His pieces are very complex, the harmony changes are surprising, there’s the counterpoint, and he’s a contemporary of Brahms. People in France know about Debussy, Ravel, Berlioz, even Messiaen, but not so much Franck. I also like Janacek. I’d like to play this repertoire in the next few years.

EH: Is there anything about the life or business of being a musician that you would like music conservatories to teach their students ? What have you learned about success, management, travels, and music critics ?

Cho: Actually, I don’t see much of critics. I read critics because friends of managers will send their work to me, but they always send me just the good ones. But when I have some bad reviews, I do read them. I respect their opinions. Sometimes they’re right. I don’t get angry when I have bad reviews. Sometimes, of course I cannot agree with their opinion, and the result is I don’t care so much about the critics or blogs or whatever. But the music business is quite tricky. I started my career just two-and-a-half years ago after the Chopin, and I can say it’s not that simple to build up a career. They book you two or three years in advance, so that is a bit difficult for me. And in terms of repertoire, who to play with, what kind of pieces to record, it’s demanding.

EH: The Pulitzer prize in Music was just awarded to Kendrick Lamar. Historically, the award has always gone to a classical composer or a jazz musician. I’m wondering if you have any thoughts about this, the times we live in, how classical music can survive in a world dominated by pop. Is there such a thing as bad music ?

Cho: I appreciate pop music, even though I don’t know much about it. These days, the number of classical music listeners is reducing. It’s difficult to find ways to survive, to bring in more audiences. But the good news is there are many great young artists who are very serious – pianists like Daniil Trifonov, Igor Levit, Benjamin Grosvenor, Beatrice Rana, etc. The pianists of my generation are very serious musicians. We all play differently, and I respect that. Perhaps we can arouse curiosity in the art form, attract new, greater audiences. I believe there is reason for hope in classical music.

EH: Thank you for taking the time, Seong-Jin.

 Cho: Thank you very much!